Jeff Woods from Pith in the Wind takes notice today that the even though the session is only two days old the legislature’s “Ministers of the Day” are bringing it with the bombast big time:
Today, retired Tennessee National Guard Lt. Col. Courtney Rodger–an invitee of House holy warrior Tony Shipley–insisted in her prayer that America is a Christian nation, no matter what certain unnamed “godless and apathetic” commie rats may say. We’re not a Judeo-Christian nation, mind you, or a nation of Christians and Jews and Muslims and many different faiths who share a certain set of values. No, we are a Christian nation. Got it?
Speaking of American soldiers in the Middle East, Rodger said: “We pray that their sacrifices are not in vain, lost to a godless and apathetic nation. For it has been declared to the world that we are no longer a Christian nation. But as Americans, we cannot turn our backs on our history for it cannot be erased.”
Seems to me that the easiest way to make this process more in tune with our nation’s founding principles is to invite ministers of all faiths to say the opening prayer. To make it even more representative of the people of the state, the number of days in the session given to each religion could be divided based on the percentage of the different faiths represented (with at least one day promised to each).
Tennessee’s religious majority is Christian so obviously a Christian prayer would be said most days. But based on the other percentage of religions, there can be x number of Hebrew, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, etc. prayers.
And maybe one day there can even be no prayer at all but a simple moment of silence instead.
I mean, the legislature represents all people of the state no matter what their religious affiliation, right? So, this seems like a perfectly reasonable way to move forward. Why would anyone have a problem with it?
Leah:
You need to understand that the forefathers took great pains to separate church and state. Thomas Jefferson first used this phrase in 1802 in a letter to the Danbury Baptists. The pledge of allegiance, by the way, didn’t have “under God” until 1954. As John Locke would say, “there is a natural right in the liberty of conscience, and must therefore remain protected from any government authority.” Locke’s writings were an inspiration to many of our forefathers.
You need to understand that a belief in the separation of church and state does not mean one is not religious. It simply means that one does not believe religion should directly influence how this country in governed. True, religion helps shape values for many — and that’s largely a good thing. However, being religious doesn’t mean one has good values, and having good values doesn’t mean one is religious.
You need to understand that there are many in the world who have been slaughtered because their countries did not respect the separation of church and state.
You need to understand that while someone might believe in God, it doesn’t mean they are Christian.
Finally, Leah, you need to understand that our greatness as a country comes from the fact we are tolerant of others, their ways and their beliefs. See those people you want to “sit down and shut up?” They’re your brothers and sisters, too. And, as the Bible says, “Whatever you do to the least of my brothers, you do to me.”
Have a nice day. Peace, and God bless.
How then, have we gotten to the point that
everything we have done for 220 years in this
country is now suddenly wrong and
unconstitutional?
Lets put it around the world and let the world
see and remember what this great country was
built on.
It is said that 86% of Americans believe in GOD.
Therefore, it is very hard to understand
why there is such a mess about having the Ten
Commandments on display or ‘In GOD We Trust’
on our money and having GOD in the Pledge of
Allegiance. Why don’t we just tell the other
14% to Sit Down and SHUT UP!!!
As you walk up the steps to the
building which houses the U.S Supreme Court
you can see near the top of the building a row
of the world’s law givers and each one is
facing one in the middle who is facing forward
with a full frontal view … it is Moses and he
is holding the Ten Commandments!
As you enter the Supreme Court courtroom, the Two huge oak doors have the Ten Commandments
Engraved on each lower portion of each door.
As you sit inside the courtroom, you can see
The wall, right above where the Supreme Court
judges sit, a display of the Ten Commandments!
There are Bible verses etched in stone all
over the Federal Buildings and Monuments in
Washington , D.C.
James Madison, the fourth president, known as
‘The Father of Our Constitution’ made the
following statement:
‘ We have staked the whole of all our political
institutions upon the capacity of mankind for
self-government, upon the capacity of each and
all of us to govern ourselves, to control
ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to
the Ten Commandments of GOD.’
Every session of Congress begins with a prayer
by a paid preacher, whose salary has been paid
by the taxpayer since 1777.
Fifty-two of the 55 founders of the
Constitution were members of the established
orthodox churches in the colonies.
Thomas Jefferson worried that the Courts would
overstep their authority and instead of
interpreting the law would begin making law
an oligarchy
One more thing Christianity is not a religion! It is a way of life and therefore we use the bible as doctrine.
I totally agree with the fact that America should go back to their roots as christians… this country was bulit on faith by our fore fathers and now everyone is allowing doors to be opened to other beliefs that we as a country should not stand for. You can’t take God out of the picture! You can take the words “In God we trust and One nation under God” out but you can not take the Christians faith and the fact that the word of God still exists and the Bible has been the number one selling book in the nation and world every year. learn about God seek him and his presence for one day ALL EYES WILL SEE JESUS in the second coming!
[...] We A Christian Nation? In light of some recent blog posts about the Tennessee legislature’s recent “Ministers of the Day” violating the informal [...]
Mary ~
Great post! I agree that if the majority of Tennesseans knew this Klan-type stuff was going on, they would put an end to it.
The way i see it, a few, old white men have been making ALL of us look like ignoramuses to the rest of the world.
And, i wonder if you would consider adding http://www.themudflats.net to your world-wide blog roll? It’s an important, delicious, progressive Alaskan blog. I will bet some of your readers already know about it.
[...] light of some recent blog posts about the Tennessee legislature’s recent “Ministers of the Day” violating the informal [...]
Ka – There’s a ton of hubris from legislators and their visitors up at the TN General Assembly, that’s for sure. And some of our legislators do have an exaggerated sense of entitlement based on their religious beliefs. So yeah, there is much to be embarrassed by. That said, there is also much to be celebrated and there are legislators of both political persuasions working hard to get some things accomplished.
My guess is that they simply choose not to pick this battle at this time since there are so many bigger and more pressing battles to wage and fires to put out.
I was talking about this with someone yesterday and they made a good point – there are very few Tennesseans who actually see this kind of stuff go on during session (actually, very few who actually watch the sessions perid) so I’m not surprised that something like this can go unchallenged for so long. Most Tennesseans believe wholeheartedly in the progressive principles of fairness and equality for all so I’m sure that if they knew, this would change.
Good luck, Kansas. We’ll be watching!
I was struck by this portion: “[S]peaking of American soldiers in the Middle East, Rodger said: “We pray that their sacrifices are not in vain, lost to a godless and apathetic nation.”
My goodness, how presumptuous! Does this nincompoop not realize that some of those soldiers, those American soldiers, may not not be Christian? They might not have any faith in a supreme being at all?
How people can content themselves by going through life with blinders on is a mystery to me? It is the diversity of humanity that makes people interesting, that adds richness to our world, and helps us evolve as a species.
Did this person not get a basic education? Did she never read a book, a newspaper, or listen to a non-Faux News broadcast? Did she not ever – even once – pay attention to American history lessons? Gees, what a brainless twit.
I’d always harbored a rather nice, even romantic vision of Tennessee, but that is blow to hell now. Your legislature is as crazy as our Republican politicians here in Kansas. If they all had their way, women wouldn’t have the vote, would be uneducated, barefoot and pregnant all the time, blacks would be in chains, formal education would end at sixth grade, and there would never be any mention of science or technology.
Guess we know now why these horrid excuses for Xhristians (spelled with an X to indicate my opinion that they are not Christians and are just ignorant, rambling posers who have so much hate in their hearts for themselves and everyone else that they wouldn’t recognize a savior if he or she came up and bitch-slapped them in the face).
I am embarrassed and outraged for your state as well as my own that we have all let them take over. It is high time that we who understand and value the Constitution and the concept of the separation of church and state, start being more active in our demand for our legislators following the law. They obviously either do not know it or refuse to respect it. Vote them out! Keep them out!
We are working hard at this in Kansas. Good luck, Tennessee! So sad these folks have come to feel they have the duty to trample on our rights and disrespect our faiths (or lack thereof). Religion and spiritual beliefs should be personal paths, not public and governmental mandates!
National Religious Freedom Day commemorates the Virginia General Assembly’s adoption of Thomas Jefferson’s landmark Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom on January 16, 1786. This vital document became the basis for the separation of church and state, and led to freedom of religion for all Americans as protected in the religion clause in the U.S. Constitution’s First Amendment.
Religious Freedom Day is officially proclaimed on January 16 each year by an annual statement by the President of the United States. This day is commemorated by the First Freedom Center in Richmond, Virginia by an annual First Freedom Award banquet.
Winter Solstice is the reason for the season:
YouTube: Zeitgeist Part 1 of 14 – new version
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JurrJxfi5OI
YouTube: Zeitgeist Part 2 of 14 – new version
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oub69ZHtA5Y
Get you free (that is to say, legal) ‘Zeitgeist, The Movie’ dvd download!
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/dloads.htm
Is America A Christian Nation?
Q&A on state/church separation
http://www.ffrf.org/shop/nontracts/Is-America-A-Christian-Nation/
“The U.S. Constitution is a secular document. It begins, “We the people,” and contains no mention of “God” or “Christianity.” Its only references to religion are exclusionary, such as, “no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust” (Art. VI), and “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof” (First Amendment). The presidential oath of office, the only oath detailed in the Constitution, does not contain the phrase “so help me God” or any requirement to swear on a bible (Art. II, Sec. 1, Clause 8). If we are a Christian nation, why doesn’t our Constitution say so?
In 1797 America made a treaty with Tripoli, declaring that “the government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.” This reassurance to Islam was written under Washington’s presidency, and approved by the Senate under John Adams.
Jumping the shark Mary?
Freedom from Religion Foundation – Report a State/Church Violation
http://www.ffrf.org/legal/report/
Americans United – Report A Government Violation Of Church-State Separation
http://www.au.org/take-action/report-a-violation/
Freedom From Religion Foundation
http://www.ffrf.org/
Americans United for Separation of Church and State
http://www.au.org/
OK, here’s the bottom line. If someone takes my suggestion then one of two things can happen. Either they will begin to allow ministers of different faiths to give the invocation as “Minister of the Day” (and even have one day where there is simply a moment of silence) or the Shipleys and Greshams of the legislature will get frustrated (because they will have to acknowledge that there may be other religions represented in their constituencies), show their unreasonable side, and take their “Minister of the Day” ball and go home (cancel the program).
It’s a win-win without having to bring up Satanists!
No! No Satanists.
NO!
Just, no.
[...] don’t know if you saw this, but the state legislature has become a hot-bed of proselytizing. Clearly, this violates the spirit of the separation of church and state and spits in the eye of [...]
Don’t be silly. That would make FAR too much sense. We’re taking about the Tennessee State Legislature, after all. Get real.
But what about MY personal religion? As soon as I figure out what it is…
I think I might be a Universalist Libertarian Bachunalian, but then again, I’m not sure.
How about Wiccans? That’d be interesting, too.
I’d pay to see the reactions on the faces of the legislators during that Satanist prayer…
And then the day an atheist gets to do it, the meeting would get started a minute or two earlier than usual. “Okay, is everyone here? Let’s get to work so we can get out of here on time for once.”
I would pay one million dollars if the ACLU could find a Satanist willing to insist upon his right to pray before the state legislature. That would be so awesome.